How big a group is too big?

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

Taken from another thread, I mentioned that my ideal group size is 5 or 6 players.

But how big is too big when you consider followers, henchmen and hirelings?

So take for example my ideal group size of 6 PCs. Now imagine that the wizard has 1 apprentice, the cleric has 2 under-clerics, the ranger has two tigers, the thief has 3 henchmen and each of the two fighters has 3 henchmen. Now the group size has grown to 6 PCs, 12 henchmen, and 2 tigers for a total of 18 NPCs and 2 animals (20 beings). That's more than 3x the size of the original (and manageable!) party of six!

Keep in mind - with higher CHA scores, each PC can have 10 to 15 henchmen!

Now granted, not all the henchmen need appear at the same time. A fighter may have 2 henchmen for awhile, then they leave and 3 more come to replace them, etc. But there's no rule saying they can't all show up at once. Even an average sized party of 6 can quadruple or even quintuple their numbers depending on various factors, resulting in 24 - 30 characters going on an adventure.

And what about normal followers? In 2E, fighters can gain 15 1st-level rangers (umm...what about that rule forbidding more than 3 rangers? ) or 30 1st-level infantry, and also 40 more infantry, and a 7th level leader. There's 70+ NPCs just for the fighter!

By 9th level or so, the PCs can be commanding a literal army - many of them leveled (i.e. above 0th level) NPCs. Adding followers and henchmen and animals and what not. Hell, the cleric by himself can command an army of up to 200 personal cleric followers!

So how do you handle all that firepower? What's to stop the fighter from bringing along his 20 archers to lay down suppressing fire and 30 1st-level infantry to kill most of the enemy before the PCs engage, or the wizard having his apprentices soften the competition with volley after volley of fireballs?

[garhkal]

For me, anything above 20 is too unweildly in combat. Whether that 20 is all 'humans', or a mix of 'humans' and animals..

My current group has 2 active players (lost the third over new years due to him moving up to mid/north Michigan for work), each playing 2 characters (both their primary AND their back ups). That gives us 4 characters. To that we have a henchman of the group, a Henchman of one of the characters, and the 2 pcs of the third player who are currently being ran as is (till they get back to town that is, then they will fade off).. That gives 8 active characters.. 5 of which ride war horses, so that gives a group size of 13.. 15 when you add in the 2 mules..

[Lyrwik]

I terms of player numbers, I find that anything over 6 tends to becomes difficult to manage. Might be different if the players were particularly professional about the game, but on the whole it would be too many. I generally prefer to keep numbers to no more than 5 PCs.

As for total party size, I've never really had henchmen in the games I've run/played in. From what I've read of a lot of other games, perhaps I'm kinda 'doing it wrong' by not having henchmen. However, most of my games haven't reached the higher levels where you'd expect henchmen, or where the PCs attract followers. I do tend to think though, that if the henchmen with the group are outnumbering the PCs, then the game would start feeling less about the PCs and their heroics.

[JadedDM]

Admittedly, I have a hard time turning away anyone who wants to join my games (I just feel bad). But on the other hand, drop-outs tend to be expected, so sometimes it's good to have extras. For instance, if I want 4 players, I may wind up recruiting 6, just in case any flake on me.

Followers have never been an issue, as I've never run a game that made it past level 7. As for henchmen, strangely, my players tend to not be terribly interested in them. In one game I ran, which took the party from level 1 to level 6, there was only ever one henchman, and the player actually recruited him by accident. (She asked if he wanted to come along with the party, he said yes, and I told her she now had a henchman. Apparently, she just meant for him to tag along like another party member.)

Anyway, in my current games: In my political intrigue game, there are 6 players (no henchmen yet, but the party is only level 2-ish, so that's not surprising). In my pirate hunting high seas game (just started on Monday), there are 7 players, but one of them hasn't finished his character sheet yet (he still needs to turn in his inventory) and another disappeared a few weeks ago and I'm suspecting she's not coming back). In my Dragonlance game, there was at one point--no joke--9 PCs (again, no henchmen). But over the years, some disappeared and now we're down to 5 as we're wrapping it up.

Of course, my games are all play-by-post, so a large group isn't so hard to deal with. Even if the party splits up (which they do...a lot), I can still manage them all without anyone being forced to sit and wait, so that helps.

[garhkal]

Admittedly, I have a hard time turning away anyone who wants to join my games (I just feel bad). But on the other hand, drop-outs tend to be expected, so sometimes it's good to have extras. For instance, if I want 4 players, I may wind up recruiting 6, just in case any flake on me.

That''s why i like having 5-7 players, as my 'good spot'.. That way if say 2 drop out, i still have 3-5..