When a spell says "Concentration" what else can they do?

[garhkal]

As a DM, what do YOU allow characters to do, whie they are maintaining concentraton on a spell.
IE say a dwarf fighter-cleric has cast a spiritual hammer, and is having it smack a baddie along side the 'night guard who was up'.. While you are doing that, you and your assistant trade off helping to put on each other's armor?

Or "while concentrating on a wall of fire, Mcmannus the mage glugs down a potion of healing.

[TigerStripedDog]

This is a great question - and I think it is one of the greatest weaknesses of the earlier editions. I like the way that 5th edition has summed it up:

CONCENTRATION

Some spells require you to maintain concentration in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends. If a spell must be maintained with concentration that fact appears in its Duration entry, and the spell specifies how long you can concentrate on it. You can end concentration at any time (no action required)

Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn't interfere with concentration. The following factors can break concentration:

- Casting another spell that requires concentration.
- Taking Damage
- Being incapacitated or killed.

The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you're on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 (average) Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell

I modify this a bit. Because I think its too easy on the players. But it still follows that basic format.

Actions you get in a turn:

1) Concentration Action/Free Action (drawing a small weapon)/Speaking Action
2) Bonus Action
3) Full Action (Can be an attack action, spell, skill check, or additional move)
4) Move Action

Concentration is Wisdom based for Divine Casters
Concentration is Intelligence based for Arcane Casters

For a character to concentrate through a given insult they must meet the following criteria or make a successful check as outlined below:

1) Concentrate through a Bonus Action: Intelligence or Wisdom Score minimum of 14
2) Concentrate through a Move Action: Intelligence or Wisdom Score minimum of 16
3) Concentrate through a Full Action OR Bonus + Move Action: Intelligence or Wisdom Score minimum of 18
4) Concentrate through a Full + Bonus + Move Action: Intelligence or Wisdom Score Minimum of 20

Concentrating while someone is trying to distract you: DC8 Saving Throw for Wisdom or Intelligence
Concentrating while being physically assaulted/attacked (even if they miss you): DC12 Saving Throw for Wisdom or Intelligence
Concentrating through damage: DC10+Damage Taken Saving Throw for Wisdom or Intelligence
Saving Throws against damaging, disabling, or otherwise malicious effects automatically break concentration, or are failed.

The goal to this system is to allow Casters to have some resilience and opportunity to interact with a situation. Taking damage is still likely to remove their concentration, but at least they get a roll for it. I find that players appreciate a chance, even if it is slim. Casters are still clearly encouraged to stay in the rear and let the fighters do all the heavy lifting in the "taking damage" department.

Tiger

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

TigerStripedDog wrote:

This is a great question - and I think it is one of the greatest weaknesses of the earlier editions.

There are no weaknesses in 1E or 2E. Only weak players and weak DMs.

I don't know...these new-fangled fancy-schmancy editions don't ever seem to make sense to me. For example:

"Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn't interfere with concentration. The following factors can break concentration:

- Casting another spell that requires concentration.
- Taking Damage
- Being incapacitated or killed."

So standing still while casting a spell or getting stung by a bee breaks concentration, but running back and forth swinging a mace at an enemy and trying to maneuver into a better combat position while he's swinging that razor sharp broadsword at your neck doesn't?

I would also think there would be no need to spell it out that yes, being killed tends to break concentration. Sigh. (We really need a face-palm emoticon)

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

I'd say that engaging in combat, running, casting another spell, or taking moderate to serious damage would be considered enough to "break concentration". Suffering a single hp or two of damage, maybe not. And the elegance of the older systems is that the solution is simple - just use a WIS check, which covers will power if there's a doubt. Drinking a potion or applying an oil, lighting a torch, etc...I'd say things like that don't break concentration.

[garhkal]

Would say a priest/fighter multi be allowed to go 'full defensive' where he just parries (so gains an AC boost) and still maintian concentration on a spell (like say he's got spiritual hammer up'??

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

I'd say no, because we need to remember what a combat round is. It's a minute of ducking, moving, fighting, parrying, maneuvering, etc. So even if the priest/fighter is simply parrying and only being defensive, that takes a LOT of concentration and movement. Personally, I use the following as a base determinant as to whether something breaks concentration:

"Can the person read a book or carry on a conversation while doing this?"

If so, they can continue concentration without ruining the spell. So for example, the cleric casts spiritual hammer. He cannot cast another spell at the same time because he couldn't carry on a conversation or read a book at the same time as he waves his hands around reciting a prayer and concentrating on his god to cast the spell. He could, however, slather himself in protective oil or drink a potion while having a conversation or reading a book. He could don armor or play around with equipment (reaching into his bag for components or swapping a sword for a mace, etc) without breaking concentration. I sorta wing it when it comes to that, using common sense.

It's sorta like when Supreme Court Justice Stewart ruled (about pornography) when asked to define it: "I know it when I see it". In a similar way, I look at each case on its own and decide whether the actions taken are enough to break concentration. In most cases it seems obvious and simple to rule. In some less common cases, it takes some thought though.

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

Although, going back to your example, I could see him using spiritual hammer while also just parrying because that would be no different than swinging a mace while fighting - assuming he's doing all that against the same individual opponent in melee combat. It's all combat, so that I might allow. In other words, he's using the spiritual hammer in place of his hand-held mace and facing off against an opponent. I wouldn't allow him to use spiritual hammer against one foe while also engaging in melee with a second foe even if it's just parrying and being defensive, because he couldn't engage in so much direct melee with one opponent (even while being totally defensive) while also concentrating attacking a different enemy at a distance with his spiritual hammer.

[garhkal]

If he's full defensive though he's NOT fighting with his own hammer/mace though..

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

Right. But all his attention is focused on not getting hit. He couldn't possibly manage to concentrate on a spell while engaging in hand-to-hand melee, especially while trying only not to get hit. In the example, I would sort of liken the spiritual hammer to a sword of dancing. I can see ruling either way - allowing him to parry while still using the spiritual hammer, or ruling that he's too distracted and the spell ends. I think it's open to DM interpretation.