BishGada (Private thread) Labyrinth of Madness

[TristenC]

The thing about calling undead from the underworld is i'm not sure they'd have corporeal bodies to summon; which would mean summoning things like banshees, ghosts and spectres. I don't think such things would fit well with this campaign so lets stick with the elementals for that item

[BishGada]

So, apparently pearls of wisdom stack...
I know it sounds overpowered, but in most campaign it wouldn't be that overpowered since we should work as a group.
Theoretically I can get to 25 WIS and the main benefit is the extra 7th level spell.

So I'm asking you if you allow this or not.
One this is done I'll update the character sheet with the final items, and start to work on the second character, although after Yelb's optimization, there is nothing that can match it

[TristenC]

I think that sounds a little excessive, lol.
I am a little curious about that though, where did you read that they stack? I've don't recall ever hearing that

[BishGada]

Well, there is no mention that they don't stack, opposed to other magical items that state specifically that they don't stack. I read a long thread of arguing to both sides where the majority said that they could stack. Some said that they could stack, but they are rare items, so the chances to have many are slim. Some said that don't care because they are the DMs and they can just easily balance any condition with challenging scenes (BTW, I occasionally DM for my daughters and do just that. They are super strong, but then if they meet a boss and actually kill it in the first round, I give him special protections such as only spells or hits of raw 17+ actually hit him. And multiply their damage by 1/2 or 1/3 as required to let him do something. And if needed I do the opposite. Just feeling the atmosphere so it is as fun as possible to all.)

https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... hp?t=82393

Honestly, I think that having 25 WIS is super cool gimmick for ADND game. I never had demigod attribute. It is somewhat overpowered but not nearly as Limited wish as I used with Yelb to get so many spells effects semi-permanent.
Having said that, if you won't allow it, I won't hold a grudge. (But Ke'Sha might... and you know how he is thinking... muhahaha... )

[TristenC]

well Wis 22 is pretty demi-godly already.
There are quite a few additional spell immunities at each wis level over 18.

But as you indicate, it does not say they stack. Most items in some way or other stack with different things that can increase the same attribute, but not with multiple iterations of the same thing. There are good points that the pearls are quite rare and it would be unlikely he would come across more than one in his adventuring career, much less picking them out a-la-cart as we are magic items for this game

Regarding custom foes and conditions (like home-brew ryles); this is an established, static module.

So for this game and the reasons above: no, they will not stack.

[BishGada]

Well, going once again over the magic items I thought that "Amulet of Dramatic Death" really fits this campaign.

So, final list:
purple ioun stone stored 9 levels , 300
Pearl of wisdom 500
Gem of insight 3000
Full plate +2 1000
Ogre power 1000
Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals 1500
Potion of polymorph self 200

I couldn't find how many doses are in a bottle. Must it be one? From some other potions descriptions that lack the number of doses but describe the affect of multiple or half doses, it suggests that a potion may have several doses even if the description doesn't state it specifically.

Also, it is written that potions can be easily created by priests and wizards and sold for a low price, so will Ke'Sha be able to duplicate the potion with some mobile kit, making it possible to have effectively 1 polymorph self per day? or every few days?

Since using the Gem of Insight, and INT get one point two, but it doesn't affect the languages of NWP, I played a bit with the ability scores:
Moved two points from DEX to CON and so got +2 HP per level (I think it is only for 1-9 levels) and moved 1 point from INT to DEX so kept the AC improvement and lost 1 in reaction and missiles.

Updated the spells in the ioun stone. (reduced from 17 level to 9)

Also, he can use large shield right? and it reduce AC by 1?

I think it is more or less done. I need to review spells again and we need to close the HP issue. (How many from CON, am I correct thinking 18? What about the Quasit)

I plan to add "Daily Routine" for spells casted daily to improve efficiency. Like the Spectral senses that I'd like to cast on a skeleton to scout ahead. Are there any tiny fast skeletons like birds or rats that can move quickly?

And now for a secondary character... Not sure what would beat the duo of Ke'Sha/Yelb... Maybe I'll play a druid, although nothing beat wizards...
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Vir Ke'Sha Tav'Lux
Male Athasian Halfling, Priest of The Lord of Undead level 16 (17 +1 Quasit Familiar) (CE)

Abilities:
STR 4 (18/00), +3 hit, +6 dmg, 335lbr weight
DEX 18, +2 reaction, +2 missile attack, -4 defense
CON 16, +2
INT 13 (14), WIS 20 (22),
CHA 5, 2 hench, -4 loyalty, -3 reaction adj.

Age 64, HT 3'5", WT 56 lbs


HP calc:
8hp + 8d8 ([8d8]=39) + 9x2 (CON) + 16 (levels10-17) + 16 (familiar)

HP: 97 (79 without familiar)

THAC0: 10 (+6 [+3 STR +2 DEX +1 Halfling] projectile, +3 Melee, +3 Staff Sling) +1 Halfling for thrown weapon
AC: -6/(-7 missiles) (-4 DEX, -11 full plate armor+2, -1/-2 Full Body Shield)
Dmg: Sling/Staff Sling (1d4+7/1d6+7), blowgun (1d3+6 + poison/1d2+6+poison), Morning Star (2d4+6/1d6+7), Sickle (1d4+7/1d4+6)
ROF: Blowgun (2/1), Sling (1/1), Staff Sling (2/1)
XP: 2,000,000 (2,025,000 with the Quasit)
Saves: PPDM 4 (+4 Halfling for poison), RSW 8 (+4 Dex, +4 Halfling), PP 7, BW 10 (+4 Dex), S 9 (+4 Halfling, +4 Wis - mind spells)
Skills: Halfling Resistance (+4), Small-sized bonus, infravision (60 feet), detect grade or slope in passage (1-3 on 1d4), determine approximate direction underground (1-3 on 1d6)
Surprise bonus +4 if alone and without metal armor. +2 if need to open door.
+1 bonus attack rolls when using thrown weapons and slings.
Bonus spells (WIS): 3x1st, 3x2nd, 3x3rd, 2x4th, 1x5th
Immunities ( due to WIS): Cause fear, Friends, Hypnotism, Charm person, Command, Forget, Hold person, Ray of enfeeblement, Scare, Fear, Charm monster, Confusion, Emotion, Fumble, Suggestion.
Granted Powers: 3 times the number of undead affected by turn, +1 HP per die of animated undead, make ghoul (1,000gp) ghast (4,800gp) ju-ju zombie (6,070gp) mummy (11,000gp), vampire or lich (20,000gp)
+3 reaction adj. (DEX)
Familiar Impact: +1 level, regenerate 1hp/round, infravision 60', telepathic connection and senses, 25% MR, +20HP

XP Bonus (10% )
WP(6): Sickle, Blowgun, Sling, Morning Star, Staff Sling, Flail
NWP (13): Botany (1) (Int -1), Speed casting (3) (Wis -2) (-2 CT), Danger sense (2) (Wis -2), Healing (2) (Wis -2), Herbalism (2) (Int -2), Diagnostics (1) (Wis -1), Poisons (2) (Int)
Languages: Common, Halfling, Dwarven, Orc
Gear:
Head – Fetishes, Black hood, Ioun stone vibrant purple prism stores 9 spell levels
Neck - Necklace of trinkets and bones (Pearl of Wisdom), [Un]Holy Symbol (Pearl embedded within), Prayer beads with Gem of Insight weaved between them
Torso – Hooded black coat [10lbr], Backpack [4 lbs] x2, torn leather jacket, shirt /Full Plate Darkened, barely makes sound, when looking at one can see his own reflection wither or ghostly [35lbr]
Hands - Bracelets, Tattoos, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Blowgun [2lbr], Full body shield
Arms - Snake pet [20lbr]
Waist – Gray leather belt, ingredients pouches x 5 [5lbr], Morning Star [12lbr], Bolt case (50 darts) [6lbr], Bolt case (50 darts) [6lbr],
Sling bullets x10 [5lbr], Staff Sling [2lbr], Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals [1lbr], Potion of polymorph self [1lbr], Girdle of many pouches
Feet – Leather boots
Backpack 1 - Rations, Mace [8lbr], Sickle [3lbr], scalpel [1lbr], torches x10 [10lbr] incense x10 [1lbr], candles x4, Vials and bottles [2lbr], Greek Fire x10 [20lbr], Holy water x10 [1lbr],
Unholy water x10 [1lbr], Mirror, Sling bullets x20 [10lbr], Blackened whip [2lbr], Bed roll, Net [5lbr]
Backpack 2 - Rope [20lbr], Gloves to handle poison [2lbr], 10 rations [1lbr], Potion of healing
Ingridient pouch 1 [10 lbr] - graveyard soil, vial of blood, ...
Ingridient pouch 2 [10 lbr] -
Ingridient pouch 3 [10 lbr] -
Ingridient pouch 4 [10 lbr] -
Ingridient pouch 5 [10 lbr] -
Belt pouch 1 [10 lbr] - Vials of injected paralytic poison (Type O 2x8 doses), Vials of injected death poison (Type E 8 doses), Vials of injected death poison (Type F 3x8 doses)
Belt pouch 2 [10 lbr] - 30gp

Wish list: Grenades of Acid x10 [20lbr], Grenades of Poisonous gas x10 [20lbr], Grenades of explosion x10 [20lbr], Grenades of smoke x10 [20lbr]

Encumbrance: 281lbr - No Encumbrance Mv 6

Spells:
Spheres of Influence: Major Access to All, Astral, Charm, Necromantic, Summoning, Thought (TOM).
Minor Access (1-3 levels) to Combat, Divination, Protection, and Sun.


Bless (1st), Combine (1st), Detect Evil (1st), Purify Food & Drink (1st), Speak With Astral Traveler (1st), Command (1st), Remove Fear (1st), Invisibility to Undead (1st),
Call Upon Faith (1st), Emotion Read (1st), Thought Capture (1st), Magical Stone (1st), Shillelagh (1st), Analyze Balance (1st), Detect Magic (1st), Detect Poison (1st), Detect Snares & Pits (1st), Locate Animals or Plants (1st), Endure Cold/Endure Heat (1st), Protection From Evil (1st), Ring of Hands/Ring of Woe* (1st), Sanctuary (1st), Light (1st)
Sanctify/Defile* (2nd), Enthrall (2nd), Hold Person (2nd), Music of the Spheres (2nd), Mystic Transfer* (2nd), Aid (2nd), Draw Upon Holy Might (2nd), Idea (2nd), Mind Read (2nd), Chant (2nd), Spiritual Hammer (2nd), Augury (2nd), Detect Charm (2nd), Find Traps (2nd), Know Alignment (2nd), Speak With Animals (2nd), Barkskin (2nd), Resist Fire/Resist Cold (2nd), Withdraw (2nd),
... (oh well, I need to rewrite this post...)

Memorized Spells:
1st (7 + 3): Bless x2, Protection From Evilx2, Command, Ebony Hand, Spectral Senses, Undead Alacrityx2, Protection from evil
2nd (7 + 3): Hold Personx3, Aidx2, Withdraw, , Find Traps, Spiritual Hammer, Resist Turning, Dark Fire of Beshaba (Priest spells compedium)
3rd (7 + 2): Emotion Control x2, Life Drain x2, Cure Blindness or Deafness, Protection from fire, Prayer, Dispel Magic, Remove Curse
4th (7 + 4): Heart Blightx2, Cause Insanity, Solipsism, Mental domination x2, Free Actionx2, Geniusx3
5th (5 + 2): Quest, Undead Regeneration/Drain, Raise Dead, Dispel good, Imbue undead with spell abilityx2, Undead Regeneration/Drain
6th (3): Asphyxiate, Word of Recall, Conj. Fire Elemental
7th (2): Resurrection, Energy drain
Ioun stones 9 spell levels: Resurrection, Hold Person
Spells under effect: Death pact

Gur'Khal-Negh (Quasit familiar)


HD: 3 (16 [20hp [3d8] = 20]) (You rolled better than me... I got 16)
Dmg: 1d2,1d2,1d4
Special Damage: save vs poison or lose 1 Dex for 2d6 hours...
Infravision: 60'
AC: 2
THAC0: 17
Special defense: 25% MR, Save as 7HD
Regeneration: 1hp/round
Abilities: Invisible, detect good, detect magic, polymorph into two animal forms (bat, wolf) at will. Globe of Fear once a day. Commune once a week (6 questions).
Movement: 15

Here they are. Decent hps for the monstrous zombies, good hps for the reg zombie, and pretty low hps for the skels… oh well, at least you said you only want them carrying things
Undead hps: 28, 35, 14
Skel hps: 4, 2, 3, 5

Ho and Rror:
Monstrous Zombies: (Ogre and Grizzly Bear)
Controlled undead
Hp: 28, 35 (6+6 ea)
AC: 6
Thac0: 15
Att: 1
Dmg: 4d4
Mv: 9
Sz: L ( and )
Int: non
Immune: Sleep, Charm, Hold, Fear, Death magic, Poison, Cold-based spells
Disadvantages: Susceptible to Turning/control, holy water (2d4 dmg/vial), non-intelligent, always strike last, only understand simple commands (1 dozen simple words or less), clumsy

‘Zum’
Zombie: (humanoid)
Controlled undead
Hp: 14 (2+2)
AC: 8
Thac0: 19
Att: 1
Dmg: 1d8
Mv: 6
Sz: M (6’)
Int: non
Immune: Sleep, Charm, Hold, Fear, Death magic, Poison, Cold-based spells
Disadvantages: Susceptible to Turning/control, holy water (2d4 dmg/vial), non-intelligent, always strike last, only understand simple commands (1 dozen simple words or less), clumsy

Skeletons: (humanoid, 4x)
Controlled undead
Hp: 2, 3, 4, 5 (1+1 ea)
AC: 8
Thac0: 19
Att: 1
Dmg: 1d6
Mv: 12
Sz: M (6’)
Int: non
Immune/resistant: Sleep, Charm, Hold, Fear, Death magic, Poison, Cold-based spells, ½ dmg from edge weapons.
Disadvantages: Susceptible to Turning/control, holy water (2d4 dmg/vial), non-intelligent, only understand simple commands (1 dozen simple words or less)

[TristenC]

The stat alterations are fine

A "large" (body shield) shield does not give extra improvement to your AC against melee attacks beyond a normal shield, but it does against missile attacks.
Shields only improve AC from the front or flank
-Medium shields protect against all attacks (improve AC by 1 for melee and ranged)
-The Body Shield is a massive shield that extends from Chin to toe, firmly fastened to the forearm and gripped (occupying the offhand) at all times. It improves the AC by 1 from melee attacks and by 2 from missile (sling stone, arrow, etc) attacks

So if you want a body shield it is an option, but it will not improve your AC against melee attacks

For the hps... if it is only very slightly different (like the avg of one die) don't worry about it.

Sorry, things have been pretty busy (on site with new players and off site with work) and I haven't had a chance to look at the Quasit yet, but I will commit to looking at it before Monday.


Regarding Potions
So basic material cost for a potion is 200-1,000 gp each. If you have excess cash from character creation and want to have some 'made at cost' some potions beforehand we can do that (but it looks like your Full Plate Armor probably cost you at least the minimum 4,000gp so I doubt there is much left). But if there is some left and you have some ideas about what potions you want to make before hand, let me know what they are and I'll give you the cost.

Per the DMG Priests use a consecrated altar to produce their potions, and the manufacture of such even with proper supplies is a matter of several days pf uninterrupted work aside from basic mortal needs like food and sleep, otherwise the attempt is ruined. So neither a portable altar nor the attention needed will be feasible during the active campaign.

So whatever he makes before and brings with him (spending gp or xp for at char creation) will be the limit of what he has.

Unless a potion specifically mentions doses or the results of drinking a fraction (half, quarter, third) then drinking anything less than the full potion results in nothing happening.

[BishGada]

Well, I'll just have this one dose of polymorph self. Then about the shield, couldn't understand from what you wrote what does body shield do. In one sentence you wrote it improves melee by one and missile by 2 and in the other you said it doesn't improve melee...

Thanks

[TristenC]

It improves the AC by 1 from melee attacks and by 2 from missile (sling stone, arrow, etc) attacks

[BishGada]

OK. So I'll take it as well.

I'm considering the second character now but all seems pretty dull compared to the optimized wizard. (Fighter wizard dual class that is).
Druid is not that interesting. I thought they have much more shape shifting capabilities. 2nd ed. barbarian, again not so interesting.
I thought of fighter dual class to a thief, but again all the main advantages of the fighter and the thief are done ad mid levels and less at high levels.

I'm thinking of fighter/thief dual class that would maximize his backstabing # of attacks and damage. Or maximize the number of darts. (but it won't have backstabing)

But then why not dual class to a wizard??

Can any character take the cantrip NWP or only spell casters? And will it be possible to have multiple backstabings assuming high stealth, maybe grand mastering weapon + ambidexterity and dual wielding + maybe some improved invisibility on or anything like it?

What do you think?

[BishGada]

Hi, as far as I remember you don't allow elves/half-elves/halfling/dwarves to dual class, right?
Also, there is a magical item in baldur's gate game called "Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization" which adds another 0.5 attack per round. Will you allow it?
I think of either fighter at level 9 dual classing to a thief and reaching level 17, or thief dual classing to fighter at two points: either 13/13 or
11 (thief) / 15 (fighter).
high level thief give backstab + many skill points. Couldn't find anything other than that.
high level fighter gives HP + thac0 + S.Th. + many attacks (capped at 13th lvl). Since I'm concerned mainly about Open locks/remove trap/move silently/hide I don't need too many skill points, so I'm inclined to high level fighter lower level thief.

if there is a kit that will not hinder the progress and have nice flavor in it that you want to point me to, I'll check it.
And if there are magical items that will improve stealth, number or attacks, magic resistance, give magic like capabilities (maybe once per day polymorph self) it would be great.

The fighter would be grand master (thus at least level 9) two weapon style and ambidexterity.

What do you think?

[TristenC]

-only spellcasters can take the cantrip proficiency. one has to have magical ability for it
-one backstab attempt, pretty clearly described in the standard rules.
-Dual classing is restricted to the shorter lived races (like humans, half orcs, etc) yes. longer lived races can multi-class
-Those gauntlets from Baldur's gate sound pretty advanced. even if I did think it could be worked up, it looks like they would probably be on-par item wise with either something too expensive (over 3000 xp) or would be so much that you wouldn't have much left over for other items.
-The reason I'm running a one-shot without much in the way of custom rules (though with such a high degree of advanced yet well established and published 2e rules) is because I don't have a lot of extra time

-Dual class fighter/thief would be fine (provided an eligible race was chosen). I think the guidelines are spelled out in the rules thread. Starting with fighter first would give better HP and weapon specialization. I don't think going thief to fighter would allow for specialization, but I'd have to check.

-There are kits in complete fighter and complete thief. Whichever kit the character was actively using should be the second class, since the whole idea of Dual classing is that the character abandoned one career to start a different one.

-there are many magical items that can do some of the things you mentioned in the last point. let me know if you find some you like

[BishGada]

I've started creating the Fighter/Thief.
The background is him being a mercenary until he got involved with some crime organization and started to get there reputation which led for him learning the business deeper.

I rolled these stats: Stat Roll for Danivar [3d4]=8 [3d4]=5 [3d4]=7 [3d4]=10 [3d4]=7 [3d4]=7
The sum is 44, so I rolled again:
Stat Roll for Danivar [3d4]=5 [3d4]=6 [3d4]=9 [3d4]=11 [3d4]=9 [3d4]=5
And now the sum is 45!! nice start...

[TristenC]

Nice.

Checking over the quasit familiar, I will say yes you can add their hp to your own. So I'll let you roll the 3d8 hps

[tarlyn]

[3d8]=8 Hp Quasit familiar

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Wow. I'll add it and look up a Quasit and add her to the sheet.

LOL 8 hp

Jinkies, man like Scoob I want a Scooby snack lol it has more hp !!